This is my testimony

LGBT military personnel who served between 1967 and 2000 in the UK armed forces

Thank you for contributing to this survey.

It is vital for the review to hear from LGBT personnel who served between 1967 and 2000. It is your testimony which will provide the insight into how LGBT personnel were treated during this period.

Gay men, lesbian women, bi-sexual people and transgender individuals were all dismissed or forced out of service by the ban.

As all these groups were affected by the ban, we need to hear from lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans personnel who served in the armed forced between 1967 and 2000 about their experience.

We also want to hear about those who were perceived to be homosexual, but were not, and affected by the ban.

We understand that recalling your experiences may be troubling. Take a look at the list of support organisations that may be able to help.

If you printed this questionnaire and need more space to answer a question, please continue your response on a separate paper marking clearly which question it relates.

For multiple choice questions, please mark an ‘X’ in your chosen response, e.g.

[X]	Yes
[ ]	No

Any submissions we consider to be homophobic, biphobic, transphobic, abusive, or which do not include any relevant testimony related to the Review will be removed from our analysis and will not be used to form our recommendations.

You can read our Terms of Reference on gov.uk.

Experience in the service

Thinking back on your time in the armed services please tell us something about your overall experience…

Were you treated unfavourably due to your sexuality or perceived sexuality?

[x ]	Yes	go to 1b
[ ]	No	go to 2

1b. If you answered yes, can you describe your experience of being treated unfavourably in service?

I was accused of being Homosexual by a ‘friend’ in 1976 but at the time I couldn’t remember any of the details of the incident he referred to which had taken place the previous night so I couldn’t answer any of the questions put to me. The memory came back many years later and I remember being drunk and still drinking in the home of an American man, my friend was asleep and the man told me he had put something in the drink I had just drank that would relax me but I might not remember anything the next day and it could be longer before my memory returned. My ship, Ark Royal, had the BBC on board so everything was hushed up and no proper enquiry was made for fear it would bring shame to the service. I was told I would be ‘got rid of’ as soon as they had evidence and I would be watched carefully by someone who had volunteered to keep an eye on me. There was a note made in a record of some sort and a rating called MEM Robert Gillan Macmillan, the volunteer, was to be drafted with me wherever I was drafted too. I wrote more on a separate page

Were you investigated, cautioned or warned due to your sexuality or perceived sexuality?

[ x]	Yes	go to 2b
[ ]	No	go to 3

2b. If you answered yes, can you describe what happened?

Everything was off the record, I have wrote an explanation on a separate page

Did the ban affect you in any other way?

[ x]	Yes	go to 3b
[ ]	No	go to 4

3b. If you answered yes, can you describe how it affected you?

Macmillan made sure my immediate superiors were told I was gay in the hope that I would be bullied. One person did bully me and I thought he was going to beat me up on one occasion. He was horrible and liked to prove how manly he was by deliberately hurting opposing players when he played Rugby. Just a nasty thug he was.

Were you subject to a medical examination or treatment?

[ x]	Yes	go to 4b
[ ]	No	go to 5

4b. If you answered yes, can you describe what happened?

I had to report to the sick bay where a doctor had a tantrum because I had been allowed to go to the toilet that morning.

Dismissal or discharge

If you were dismissed or discharged due to the ban, we would like to hear about your experience.

Were you dismissed or administratively discharged from the Armed Forces between 1967 and 2000 due to your sexuality or perceived sexuality?

[ ]	Yes	go to 5b
[ x]	No	go to 15

5b. If you answered yes, can you describe your experience of dismissal or discharge from the service?

Can you describe how the accusation or charge was made?
I was told an accusation had been made and I had to report with my hat to the Regulators office. I was kept waiting until the office emptied then asked about an incident I couldn’t remember anything about that had been reported just that morning. The Fleet Chief Master at Arms was quite sympathetic and said B Unit Chief MEM Tarrent had asked that everything be hushed up and kept in the Unit. I remember the Fleet Master at Arms was called Wilkins, I think, but he was a lovely man, fair and humane. I liked him.
Can you describe the immediate impact being accused or charged made on you?

I already felt that I could never fit in or be accepted anywhere really. My dad had suggested I join the forces because he thought I might be accepted and looked after by everyone. He had done national service in the army and said they would clothe and feed me and all I had to do was whatever they told me to do. He said I wouldn’t last two minutes in the shipyards and the men there would be merciless. That was the only time he ever admitted that he did actually understand. I had started asking questions when I was 3 and was taken to the doctor to be shouted at and told I was wicked after the Infants school got involved in 1964. Long story that.
Can you describe what happened?

I just felt despondent and like an outcast. I had started wishing I had never been born after seeing the doctor in 1964 and realising there was no hope of ever being allowed to be me. I knew there had been some kind of mistake and I preyed to God that I could go to sleep and wake up changed. Never mind. Everything happens for a reason. I thought I must have been a wicked in a previous life and was being punished especially after being told I was wicked by doctor Rutherford. He did what he thought was best. My mam lied about why she was sending me to see him so he wasn’t prepared. He had to get his secretary to ring the school. My Aunty was made to take me because it was her fault I thought I was a girl somehow and she lied as well and on the way up Mile End Road she had told me to say it was all a game or I would be put away but I couldn’t lie. This is another long story though and not relevant except to illustrate how LGBT people were actually thought of in those days.

Can you describe the outcome following the proceedings against you?

I have wrote separately about this
How did this impact your life post dismissal from service – Health and wellbeing (including physical and mental health), relationships (including service, family, friends, & partners), employability and career, housing, or financial position?
I believe the past is what makes us who we are today so have no regrets or hard feelings. It’s just life I suppose. Everything worked out alright in the end and I have a lovely caring affectionate boyfriend so love and romance blossomed eventually.
What was your rank/seniority prior to any investigations and did that change when you were dismissed? MEM
If you were dismissed, did you have your medals or conduct badges removed?

[ ]	Yes	go to 12b
[ ]	No	go to 13

12b. Can you say what medals or badges were removed?

Compensation

Did you ever apply for any remedy or compensation for your dismissal?

[ ]	Yes	go to 13b
[ ]	No	go to 14

13b. If you did apply, can you describe how and when you applied, and what was the outcome? If you did not apply, why not?

Did you ever receive any remedy or compensation for your dismissal?

[ ]	Yes	go to 14b
[ ]	No	go to 15

14b. If you received any remedy or compensation, how was it received?

Have you ever applied for medals or awards to be returned?

[ ]	Yes	go to 15b
[ ]	No	go to 16

15b. If you applied for medals and awards to be returned, can you describe how and when you applied, and what was the outcome?

Have you ever applied for a disregard or pardon?

[ ]	Yes	go to 16b
[ x]	No	go to 17

16b. If you have, can you describe how and when you applied for a disregard or pardon, and what was the outcome?

Were you forced or compelled to leave the services through unofficial methods or actions, or due to general hostility towards LGBT personnel?

[ x]	Through unofficial methods or actions	go to 17b
[ ]	Due to general hostility towards LGBT personnel	go to 17b
[ ]	Other	go to 17b
[ ]	I was not dismissed or administratively discharged due to my sexuality	go to 18

17b. Can you describe the circumstances of your leaving?

I was kept under observation and bullied. I had notes added to my records but no explanation as to why I shouldn’t be allowed to extend my service. I have wrote about it on a separate page.

Recommendations for the future

The Review is also looking at how services can be improved for LGBT veterans, and how your service can be recognised. We would be grateful for your views.

What have your experiences been of veterans services, and how can services for veterans today be made more accessible and inclusive for LGBT veterans?
I think some basic education in Human Rights and equality would be a start. Potential Far Right extremists and bigots should be identified early on before they can spread hate. There should be no place for hate, division and bigotry in any form within our armed forces.
How can government ensure that veterans dismissed or otherwise required to leave Her Majesty’s Armed Forces because of their actual or perceived sexual orientation are recognised and accepted as full members of the Armed Forces community?
I think the government could take responsibility and show some leadership in making our nation a more tolerant and fair society right now. At the moment they are actively using transphobia to achieve some hidden goal. Perhaps it’s just a distraction from real issues but intuition tells me it is to roll back LGBT rights, women’s reproductive rights and is a general attack on all our Human rights. I think focusing on making the whole of society more accepting of all LGBT and other minorities will do the most good as any improvement in the general society will spill over into the armed forces and eventually other institutions. There is evidence however that the government is working towards creating a climate of fear for LGBT people in society so it will make our nation less tolerant and will spill over into all institutions including the armed forces.
How can the government acknowledge and appreciate the service of LGBT veterans?
Stop attacking and demonising transgender women for a start. An attack on the rights of any minority is an attack on the rights of everyone. LGBT veterans should be recognised for their service to the Nation and not looked down upon by the present Government who have a shameful record which includes anything but service to our Nation. They serve themselves. x
Is there anything else relevant to the Review, and within its terms of reference, which you wish to add?

Verification

LGBT veterans have the opportunity to provide a service number, for us to verify. This is to ensure that we have an accurate understanding of the views of service and ex-service people.

This verification process is completely voluntary and you do not have to provide this information, however, it would help to ensure that the testimony given is authentic.

Testimony will still be accepted without the provision of a service number.

Responses will not be attributed to individuals in any published document without prior consent. Service number will only be used for verification purposes.

Service numbers will not be kept beyond the need to verify them.

If you wish to provide your service number, please do so in the box below. Note: if you have multiple service numbers you only need provide one.

Sorry I don’t trust the Gov.

Follow up conversations

At the end of the Call for Evidence we may want to contact some veterans to have a follow up conversation in order to give greater insight into their experiences.

Responses will not be attributed to individuals in any published document without prior consent.

If you wish to be considered for a follow up interview, please provide an email.

Case studies

We may want to publish some testimony as case studies over the duration of the Review. This will help us reflect the experiences of LGBT veterans.

These will be anonymous and all personal information removed.

If you would like for your testimony to be used in a case study, please provide an email or address so we may contact you.

Service information

In order to build a picture of who responded to the Call for Evidence, we would be grateful for information on your service history.

This information will be aggregated, so no individual can be identified.

Please mark all services that you have served in: [ x] regular armed forces [ ] reserve armed forces [ ] National Service
If you served in the regular armed forces, please mark all that apply [ x] Royal Navy Regular [ ] Royal Marines Regular [ ] British Army Regular [ ] Royal Air Force Regular [ ] National Service [ ] Gurkhas [ ] Ulster Defence Regiment [ ] Royal Irish Regiment [ ] Other
If you have previously served in the reserve forces, please mark all that apply: [ ] Full Time Reserve Service [ ] Part Time Reserve Service [ ] Royal Naval Reserve [ ] Women’s Royal Naval Service [ ] Royal Marines Reserve [ ] Royal Fleet Reserve [ ] Royal Fleet Auxiliary [ ] Royal Navy Sponsored Reserve [ ] Army Reserve [ ] Territorial Army [ ] Auxiliary Territorial Service [ ] Army Sponsored Reserve [ ] Ulster Defence Regiment [ ] Royal Irish Rangers [ ] Royal Irish Regiment [ ] Royal Air Force Reserve [ ] Royal Air Force Sponsored Reserve [ ] RAF Reserve of Officers [ ] RAF Reserve of Ranks [ ] Royal Auxiliary Air Force [ ] Women’s Auxiliary Air Force [ ] Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve [ ] Royal Air Force Sponsored Reserve [ ] Called-out Reservists [ ] Home Guard [ ] Other. Do not enter if you only served in any of the following: ■ Royal Air Force Training Corps ■ Royal Air Force Air Experience Flight ■ Royal Air Force Volunteer Gliding Schools ■ Defence Technical Undergraduate Scheme ■ Combined Cadet Force ■ Army Cadet Force ■ Cadet Force Adult Volunteers ■ Sea Cadet Instructors or Students ■ University Royal Naval Units ■ University Air Squadrons ■ Air Cadets ■ Ministry of Defence Civilians or Other Civilians
When did you serve? (please mark all that apply) [ ] 1967-1970 [ ] 1971-1974 [ x] 1975-1978 [ x] 1979-1982 [ x] 1983-1986 [ x] 1987-1990 [ ] 1991-1994 [ ] 1995-1998 [ ] 1999-2000
Do you still serve?

[ ]	Yes
[ x]	No

Demographic Questions

Answering the following questions will help us to better analyse and understand your response to the Call for Evidence. The information you provide will only be used for analytical purposes. These are completely voluntary.

How old are you?

[ ]	35-44
[ ]	45-54
[ x]	55-64
[ ]	65+
[ ]	Prefer not to say

Location: Which area of the United Kingdom do you live in?

[ x]	North East
[ ]	North West
[ ]	Yorkshire and the Humber
[ ]	East Midlands
[ ]	West Midlands
[ ]	East of England
[ ]	London
[ ]	South East
[ ]	South West
[ ]	Wales
[ ]	Scotland
[ ]	Northern Ireland
[ ]	Prefer not to say
[ ]	Outside of the UK, please specify

Ethnic group: Choose one option that best describes your ethnic group or background. [ x] White [ ] Mixed/multiple ethnic groups [ ] Asian/Asian British [ ] Black/African/Caribbean/Black British [ ] Prefer not to say [ ] Other ethnic group, please specify
Disability: Do you consider yourself to have a disability?

[ ]	Yes	go to 33b
[ x]	No	go to 34
[ ]	Prefer not to say	go to 34

33b. If you answered yes, is your disability related to having served in the military?

[ ]	Yes
[ ]	No
[ ]	Prefer not to say

Religion: What is your religion? [ ] Christian [ ] Buddhist [ ] Hindu [ ] Jewish [ ] Muslim [ ] Sikh [ x] No religion [ ] Prefer not to say [ ] Any other religion, please specify:
What best describes your gender?

[ x]	Female
[ ]	Male
[ ]	Non-binary
[ ]	Prefer not to say
[ ]	I prefer to self describe

Do you identify as trans?

[x ]	Yes
[ ]	No
[ ]	Prefer not to say

Thank you

Thank you for responding to our call for evidence. We will use your responses to help inform recommendations for government. To keep up to date with the review please head to our website or social media.

This next bit is the extra explanation I added as there was too little space in the boxes on the form, or so I thought. I’m not sure if the form I emailed was the fully filled in Word document. I think the last few questions about how things could be improved in my opinion was somehow not included in the document I actually emailed back to them. I don’t know why but it’s not important.

My ship, Ark Royal, had the BBC on board so everything was hushed up and no proper enquiry was made for fear it would bring shame to the service. I was told I would be ‘got rid of’ as soon as they had evidence and I would be watched carefully by someone who had volunteered to keep an eye on me. There was a note made in a record of some sort and a rating called MEM Robert Gillan Macmillan, the volunteer, was to be drafted with me wherever I was drafted.

Macmillan was the nastiest person I have ever known. He was a member of the Orange Lodge and constantly expressed his hatred of anyone not white British but had a particular hatred of Catholics, Jews and LGBT minorities. A Far Right fanatic. His only friends were a handful of similar thinking bigots. There was a small group of them who were so fanatically ‘patriotic’ that their hatred or patriotism as they liked to think of it even extended to the food they ate. Anything other than pie and mash was considered to be foreign muck. The other men who had to serve with them just seemed to ignore their stupidity and ignored them too as did I. One of the bigots once told me French Mustard was foreign muck when I suggested he should try some after he complained there was no English mustard on the table. All the mustard was from the same Coleman factory. He was serious, I didn’t say anything because he was over 7 feet tall. He was one of those who volunteered later during the Miners strike to dress up as a policeman when ‘suitable’ tall volunteers were sought to help the police who were short staffed.

I have mentioned all this because bigotry throughout society was very common and generally accepted. MSM carried constant anti minority propaganda dressed up as news. All minorities were treated with hostility and disdain by MSM and the establishment. Bigotry was encouraged throughout the whole of society by blatant MSM propaganda although nearly all the men I served with were very decent and very nice, a minority were affected by the hate and Hype. The system/state institutions/MOD did encourage this bigotry.

I fell in love with a comrade in the early 80’s. Obviously I couldn’t say anything but he told me one day that we couldn’t be seen together as tongues were wagging and we would both be in trouble, he said he knew I loved him and he loved me but only as a very close friend.

Apparently everyone thought I must be gay because I had ‘mannerisms’ and it ‘was just the way I was’. Another dear friend and comrade told me that. He thought he himself must be gay because he fancied me. I am a transgender women and I was so wrapped up in trying to be a man that it never occurred to me that anyone would be able to see my true self, the real me. Poor Bob is a straight male but really thought he must be gay and so he asked for a transfer away from me. We were all about to be positively vetted by GCHQ and he was worried that he would be found to be gay, kicked out and lose his pension.

I went through the vetting process and it was GCHQ who filled in the details about why my friend Bob had asked for a transfer. The GCHQ officer also told me not to try and extend my service as they had seen all of my records and warned me I would not be allowed to carry on serving and risked losing my pension if I tried. I had already extended my service once after my 9 years initial engagement came to an end and remember being told I wasn’t allowed to extend my service at that time. There was no explanation for why the note had been written into my records. The head of my department didn’t want to lose me so the note was eventually ignored.

Anyway, GCHQ said I was not a security risk although they couldn’t figure out if I was gay or not but on balance thought I probably was. They said not to worry about it because they didn’t share information with the Navy and were only interested in security.

I have written these previous few paragraphs because not being able to live as my true self caused trouble for my comrades. Being transgender caused trouble for others once I left service too, I just went along with the pretence and people were eventually hurt to some degree. I only started living as my true self when I was on the verge of a second suicide attempt, living as my true self was a last resort. I have never changed and am still the same person I have always been really. I understand now why people thought I must be gay, I was just no good at pretending to be male I suppose. It’s impossible to change gender, I just stopped pretending to be someone I’m not eventually.

I am wondering whether Trans folk are actually welcomed into the forces even now. The MSM is still pumping out anti trans misinformation and propaganda and the government still want to deny us the same rights the rest of the population take for granted. They want to bin the equalities act so where does that leave LGBT people who are serving in the armed forces now. We all know what happened in the US. Nothing will come of this consultation I fear.

Lots of love.

Pauline Stoker xx

Category: Personal

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